Selling photos, what does everyone do?
|
dtdgoomba
Joined: 2002-11-04
Posts: 185 |
Posted: Mon, 2003-02-03 03:31
|
|
Hey everyone. Just wanted to know what people selling photos do to come up with prices and how they run their biz. I just wanted opinions and see how successful it is for people to sell their photos. I'm looking to really start doing that with some customizations I found in the forums here (oscommerce, vvgallery, paypal, etc). Here are a couple of questions for everyone 1) Have you used other online stock photo companies for your photos, and did they work somewhat or not at all? Can you name some? I'd like to sell on my own, but it wouldn't hurt to have something else going too. 2) If you're using offering prints of photos, does the order people place go to you and you do it through shutterfly or something directly? I'm guessing it would be a big pain if you had to fulfill all the orders. 3) How do you come up with prices? I was wondering for prints, as well as the digital versions of your pics. I know stock photo places do it sometimes where you 'rent' the picture for like a couple hundred a year and limit their usage, etc. I wouldn't want to sell a photo cheap. Anyway, any stories, opinions, whatever would be cool. Best of luck to all you photographers out there |
|
Posts: 1301
There are a ton of stock photo sites online these days, some offering free downloads, some you pay large amounts and some are much smaller. A quick search on google will bring up a ton of sites offering free photos. Some are more reputable than others, so buyer beware!
As to selling thru other online companies - an interesting example is istock.com, which started with photos you could download for 25 cents and the photographer got 5 cents of that (talk about lowball!). Anyway...it must have been successful for them because now they've launched istockpro.com - a step up from istock - photographers set their own fees and conditions. (see more here: http://www.istockpro.com/xnet_index.php). It's much harder to get listed with istockpro that with their other site. I haven't gone this route, I couldn't tell you if people make money from selling their photos that way. You'd need thousands of shots to make $$ at a nickel per photo.
There is also the decision of whether your photos are to be for web use only or printable resolution. Larger images that are of good quality should demand a larger price point since they can be utilized in more ways.
It's not an easy field to make money in, but there are ways to break in via specialization (photos that not everyone else has onsite). I know several successful photographers who are lukewarm as to how successful selling their work online is. I also know a few that branched out into a sort of "tourism" type mode. They provide postcards and notecards for small gift type stores in their area as a way to get their name out and many of the postcard/notecard images are available in larger format for a fee.
I don't sell online officially, but have been contacted by clients who have seen my site and wanted to know more about a specific photo or needed something similar and I have provided it for them.
Be aware that anything with other people in it will need a signed release from the people in the photo and as the photographer you are responsible for having that on file and available at all times should someone request it. If you are unsure as to how to word one of these forms, type "photography release form" into google and you'll get lots of examples!
Prices - check your area, see what the market will bear. I find online purchases interesting, because most people assume the price is in US Funds, and for me that is of benefit since my Canadian dollar is currently of less value than the US dollar.
Overall it takes a lot of research. I'm still researching, trying to decide what direction to go in. I have private stock for web clients that I can utilize for their sites, those prices are included in their site design fee.
I don't know if any of this is what you were looking for, but I hope it helps a little.
Gaile
Posts: 185
Thanks for the response PixelPoet. Yeah, I was going through google and wasn't sure what kind of companies you can trust on there. I was in a client meeting and just heard photonica mentioned and that started me on the idea of hey, I include my images in client sites a lot, I wonder if I could make a little $$ on the side for it.
Specialization almost always means more money so I need to find a niche, so hopefully I work more at my 'style' and such.
I've also been finding copyright info on photos and just what you're mentioning, model release forms and such. I have to do more research but I think if I was in public and took photos of people in public, then I don't need one, but if I do a private shoot with anyone, I have to have them sign a form. A friend of mine and I do that for our indie films but I may be wrong on the 'public domain' idea.
Thanks for taking the time to respond though, I hope this becomes a good thread for photographers and the like to share how they're doing, especially with using Gallery as their vehicle!
Posts: 34
Hi all,
Excellent General Chat topic IMHO.
I have been doing research into selling photos online. What a pain =) As everyone has stated, its a niche market. I have completely trashed the idea in regards to selling my work online (profit margins are razor thin if you go thru a 3rd party... not to mention the possible legal problems if you do not have a release form from the subjects in the photos).
If you decide to go at it solo, look into VVgallery.com, they use oscommerce GNU/GPL php application that handles ecom very well. Anywho enough of my bambling (I should be working), I just wanted to say that this topic is a great idea. I am very interested in reviewing your findings, and aligning myself with motivated photographers.
Peace.
Foobonic.
Posts: 185
Cool, thanks for joining us. I figured that everyone here is a pro/amateur
trying to do something cool. We're not in competition with each other so
why not help consolidate research! I was meaning to try out vvgallery, but
then sat and wondered what the hell I would charge, who would fulfill the order,etc.
So many questions.... :lol:
Posts: 126
I am working on setting up a print gallery/stock file solution with oscommerce and gallery, with another program thrown in too, but I am waiting for a new release of oscommerce that is due out in a few days before I get into it too seriously.
Currently I have photos listed in an oscommerce "catalog" and will fullfill orders either with dotPhoto, for prints, or CafePress, for posters, large prints and framed prints. It seems to be working out well. With CafePress I have a "gallery" online and they handle everything start to finish and I get a commission check every month- 6 weeks. You set your own prices and with a custom store (59.00 a year) you can have as many of the same item (i.e. posters) as you have images to sell. You upload your images (full size jpgs, gifs, or pngs and they do the rest. DotPhoto, same thing, you can load a bunch of photos and set your own prices, or send them a cd to upload (I haven't done either yet) and let them handle the whole transaction and wait for your cut, or put your photos on your own site with your list of options and place the order yourself, and keep the profit upfront.
Both services have good quality and CafePress has an active forum.
I am currently testing a specialty store, it isn't finished, but if you want to take a look at oscommerce with photos go to http://coolcatsites.net/coolstuff What I plan to do is integrate Gallery into osCommerce, which another photographer has done, but hasn't shared the code :smile:
Here is my question. Should I have the Gallery be the "front end" of the store, with the photos having a link to the cart via the product page, where the options, including the link for download for stock use be OR should osCommerce be the frond end, with the Gallery being the product pages? I'm leaning toward Gallery being the front end, so people can see the albums as "categories" and can see a slide show of images in each album so they can quickly see if something catches their eye. Oscommerce has a search function built in and a download function, with add ons to enhance both and to enhance the attributes.
What do you think?
Debbie
http:loxlygallery.com (also not finished!)
Posts: 185
Hey Loxly, how is it all working for you? I just went to the forums in oscommerce to see what it's like over there and how the mods are, etc and it looks cool. I was also checking out dotPhoto and what you provided. I'm still trying to figure out if I should let another site do everything and I get a % from it (what % do you get? whatever the diff between their price for printing and shipping and what price you specified?), or if I should just put up an oscommercie site and play with that, and figure out how to take payments for things.....
I saw the vvgallery thingy in the custom gallery forum, but I wasn't sure what to do with it b/c I'd love to integrate Gallery somehow, so if you've set up that print gallery/stock file solution, I'd love to see what you're working on.. I know you must be also trying to find the time to actually put up your stuff and selling too, so I won't harass you! :wink:
Oh, and to anyone that isn't going this fancy and just doing the paypal links, how is that working for you? Reliable payments from people, you fulfill? etc.. Best of luck to everyone here~
Posts: 126
Real life has gotten in the way a bit, but I am still sorking on this. Actually oscommerce has so many options now that I am thinking of using that for the main site, and using Gallery as "satelites" with specific albums on specific other sites linking back to the osc main gallery. I just need to figure out how to incorporate the osc buy now or link to product page automatically with each photo. I do NOT want to hand code each link :smile:
Why use osc and not sell only form dotphoto or another provider? Choices. I always have the choice of how to fulfill an order. I out the product or print on the site and I can print it myself, or order it from dotphoto or from where ever else has shown me they can produce quality products. By separating products into categories it si easy to delete aor disable a product if your supplier isn't fulling your orders or if you need to change something. So basically you offer what you want, set your price at what you want and fill the orders the way that is best for you at the time the order is placed.
Same with downloads of files, you can set certain files to be delivered upon payment via osc, or you can email a link to a file that you load just for the customer, in the case of a 30mg tif file, which you would sell less of than a jpg for a web site.
Feel free to email me privately about this,
or pop in the osc forums. I don't see a notify function on this bbs, so I don't get notification of a reply and don't check here as often.
Both products will be working together for this, but maybe not in the way I orignally intended. I have many phpnuke sites and they will all have galleries and stores added to them. Obviously the gallery integrates into phpnuke already, so I just need to get osc into that installation as well. What I am developing will work for print sales and for downloadable file sales, in addition to cd delivery of stock images.
In my own case, I need as little hands on after the sale as possible due to time constraints. Plus I need time to scan images and negs, and create new images! So having the "back end" automated as much as possible is important to me. dotphoto will even load photos from cd to your space there, very time saving!!! If Cafe Press would do that I would quit my day job and scan all day long! :lol:
Debbie
Posts: 126
Oops, forgot another important point, allowing the photos to be sent as electronic postcards is and will be a great promotional tool to get people to your site that wouldn't otherwise get there. I haven't added the mod yet, but need to do it this weekend. there are of course a couple for Gallery and there is one mod being worked on for osc.
Debbie
Posts: 13
Well, I've been looking at trying to sell my photos online now for a while. I've come up with a quick solution but it doesn't meet my needs (very close though). I'm using Gallery to display my proofs and I have a dropdown below the photos with all of my products. When the customer clicks on the product, it opens up the paypal shopping cart with the name of the photo/album name.
The problem I have is with the way Paypal calculates shipping for "International" accounts. They only allow a shipping profile to be used for US accounts. This creates a problem when trying to sell photos, because if they choose to purchase 1 5x7 and 1 4x6 they get charged twice for the shipping. I can't just specify one shipping charge for everything, because I sell Mugs, Candles, larger photos which cost more to ship.
I'd love to integrate OSCommerce but I think it's a bit much for what I need, and will take a lot more coding/hacking.
If anyone wants to take a look at my site and suggest any ideas, I would appreciate it
http://www.digipics.ws
Thanks
Andy
Posts: 185
Wow, cool to see everyone responding. i'll definitely keep in touch loxly since I'd like to get something of mine going and would love to see what you've done.
afeltmate, I was wondering, if i change the $$ amount in the paypall address, it'll add your product to the price I change when I tried. I didn't follow through to checkout but I remember hearing paypal had an issue with that. Is it still an issue or does that not matter at all, you get the correct one at some point? I wouldn't want someone screwing with the prices
Posts: 13
It can be a problem if you don't check the orders. I make sure that I receive the right amount everytime otherwise I don't mail the photos.
Andy
Posts: 185
Well, to update everyone, I've been getting my store together on Cafepress (link will be posted here I guess when it's ready). I like their interface for customizing your web page and their product choices, although I'm still sketched out on panties... I don't like their print options, only posters like Loxly mentioned.
I started to build up OSC, and I still haven't read up on VVGallery yet, but it's a lot of time to set up. But even if I do that, I have to take the orders and fulfill them myself. I know it gives you the freedom to choose where you want to print from, hell, even your own photo printer if you have one :wink:, but I just want to spend time making things and advertising my site, like Loxly said. I thought of having Gallery as my store but even with just using paypal, I think it may be a hassle for me to take orders. I may just use Gallery for showing clients what photos they can have in their site design by me, or maybe even downloadable files (I'm aware that OSC does that).
I've been researching places online where I can just put up photos and my prices and let people go there to order. Dotphoto.com is looking good (Thank you Loxly) as an option. Shutterfly has a pro option that I've been thinking about and would love opinions on if you have it. I didn't see anything on Ofoto, Snapfish for the biz end. Does anyone have ones they're using that work great? Like I said, the more hands off the better for me. Best of luck to all you pros and amateurs! :wink:
Posts: 185
So I'm starting my DotPhoto account and noticed that the site is a little strange in navigation on things (for me at least) but what bothered me are spelling mistakes in your admin nav. Things like that always seem a little unprofessional, but can a few people vouch for it (I know you probably can Loxly)? I am probably going to order using my 10 free prints they give, but I just want to make sure it's a reliable site to focus my time on.
Thanks!
Posts: 4
I think we should write our own that is modular with gallery and get rich
I would think that as popular that gallery is that photo sales websites would have figured out how to hook a gallery without the owner having to setup anything except a config page... This would be beneficial to owner who doesn't want to mess with it and wants to make a few bucks, the photo company who's selling the photos, and the consumer who really doesn't care how he gets them... In my case anyways.
I have a sportfishing boat and want to display photos for our visitors to promote charters, but on the otherhand know that previous charter fisherman in the pics would love to purchase the images in various sizes and even screen savers, you know how fisherman love to brag!
Any thoughts on this?
Regards
Posts: 12
Hi. I'm looking for a module or something that isn't too complicated to set up as a shopping cart, to specify print sizes and prices, etc., similar to http://www.greatnationalcamera.com
Posts: 13
See my post for new(?) possiblities from DotPhoto.
http://gallery.menalto.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=21152
Posts: 12
Thanks, I'll check it out
Posts: 146
anything new on this?
Posts: 12
Sam -
Are you looking for a means to have prints ordered online?
I am currently working on a free service for professional photographers, models, anyone really, to post photos to generate print orders, if you are interested.
It will be similar to the existing album function at http://www.greatnationalcamera.com, but is extended to allow photographers to set their own profit margins and build client specific galleries. Their photos will then be available 24/7 to generate customer orders.
Bruce
Posts: 146
Where are the photos hosted? In my gallery or your site?
Posts: 12
On our site. If you have a Gallery site, folks can view all your work there in whatever formats you have going for you. Just throw in an Order prints link to take them to what will essentially be your online store.
Just to clarify, the site is greatnationalcamera, not the site in my profile.
Posts: 146
care to give us a walk through about how to set up the affilate account (links) and show us how to mod gallery to work with it?
thanks
Posts: 12
I had originally posted here in July, when I was first told by the company they wanted a 'Professional Gallery' feature for their website.
I started looking for something to accomplish that and came across this forum.
I have since written a program independant of these Galleries.
The link would be a simple link to a login page to your 'store', assuming that you have a website, Gallery or otherwise, to link from. Its not required.
The original notion was, there are lots of photographers who do their photo shoots, order proofs, show them to their clients and order prints for them of the proofs they like.
We are simply providing a free service where they can upload photos, send their clients a link to view them online and order prints/reprints/enlargements right there. The order is processed with the photographers profit worked in, we process and ship the prints and take our cut.
Its still a work in progress, but if you would like a preview, I will send you a link to the registration page and you can look around. Its too early to post it here, and may not be appropriate to do so, but if anyone else wants to take a look and give me some feedback, I'll be happy to accommodate them. Just PM me or give me an email address.
Posts: 34
afeltmate,
This thread is so old I hope you are still around.
Can you share with me your method of integrating paypal in that way or point me in the right direction at least?
Posts: 12
I'm not hip to the Gallery set up, never ended up using it, wrote a program for our Free Professional Galleries Service instead...
...However, if you go to PayPal you can create all the shopping cart code you need at their site and paste it into yours.
hth
Posts: 34
Thanks bruwmac
I was just wondering where exactly I was supposed to be modding and pasting it...
Posts: 12
Take a look here:
http://gallery.menalto.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=10441&highlight=paypal
Posts: 12
Related paypal posts here:
http://gallery.menalto.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=search&mode=results
hth
Oops. That link doesn't work. Well, do a keyword search for paypal, if you haven't already.
Posts: 1
YEah yeahhhhhh u guys are righttttt
Posts: 13
This message is really for Pixel Poet. If it is true that I need a signed release from people in my photos if I sell them, then how in the world can Gallery force me to offer online printing services that sell MY PHOTOS? I cannot un-check successfully the 'services' listed when someone clicks on one of my photos and goes to "print this photo", I have no releases in writing, the 'services' have never asked. Perhaps I should have some of my disgruntled site visitors who have had a bad experience with one of those 'services' to sue them for not having a written release from them. I am not selling my photos, so I have nothing to worry about. I have nothing at all to do with those 'services' and receive nothing from them. My average site visitor brings my integrity into question when I tell them I get no money from these 'services' because they can't believe that is true since the 'services' show up on my photos. Bottom line, If I, as the creator of the art, have to have a signed release, why do these commercial interlopers get to sell my stuff without one?
Posts: 1301
Gallery doesn't force anyone to offer online printing services. If you cannot uncheck this option then try upgrading to a newer version of Gallery.
I just answered the how-to for this in your other post.
As for the signed release form - I am not a lawyer, I was merely passing on information from my research.
I'm not quite sure what your point is - the commercial services are offered so that you can offer the option of printing photographs to your site visitors OR NOT. Your choice.
Gaile
Posts: 13
See my reply on the other question. If it were as simple as making the choice not to use printing services, obviously that is what I would do. My problem is that I am unable to make that choice for some unknown reason. It seems the answer on most issues here is to upgrade. I don't understand why if something worked so well for me in the past, and I haven't changed it, why should I have to upgrade it?
As to the legal ramifications of photo releases, I am not a lawyer either, but I recently was photograped by a local newpaper and TV station, and my daughter has been photographed two times recently by a different local newspaper. She as an athlete, me as a theft victim. On four different instances our photos and the video of myself were published both on TV and in the local papers. No release was ever presented, offered, or signed. The issue was never raised. Everyone is filmed when shopping at Wal-Mart, visit an ATM, or drive in Charlotte. It just puzzles me to try and figure why photos that I produce would be different. Thanks anyway.
Posts: 7994
Bigroj, you can always disable print services. If you can't, it's a bug and we'll fix it. I moved your other post to the correct forum where somebody on the G1 team will address it. And even if that weren't the case, you're in possession of a complete copy of the source code so you can always fix the bug and submit a patch back to us.
Posts: 13
Thank you, it must be a 'bug' as you say because I cannot disable the print services. I am being hammered with visitors who aren't very pleased and believe that I am making money off this. It is frustrating to me because I have no control over the lack of service and no one believes me. I am thinking of just ditching Gallery and starting over, at least my visitors will see that I am aware of a real problem and am willing to fix it. If I ditch Gallery, they will know I am telling the truth, but for a few days they will not get to the photos.
Posts: 7994
Do what you've got to do. But I see that you're getting help in the G1 support forum, so that should resolve it.
Posts: 4
afeltmate, I am brand new at this photo selling stuff, I take sports photos for our local city web site www.somersworld.com I had so many parents looking to purchase prints I had to build my own site to post the photos for them. I am setting it up as a non-profit site with any profit going back into a sports scholarship at the school.
I looked at your site, and love the way you input proof throughout the photo. I need to do some kind of watermark to keep people from just printing the photos, but what I have found offered is real costly.
Did you do your own, or pay for the watermark service? My site is
http://www.prints4us.com any information you could pass on to help me keep people from just down loading and printing the photos I post would sure help keep the cash headed for the scholarships, rather than supply free photos...
Thanks for any help you can send my way.... Jonezy
Posts: 4
bigroj, I have just opened my own site, but have been taking sports photos for years at other web sites. It is my understanding that anyone photographed at a public event will not require a release. Private shoots are a differant story.
But like others have said I am not lawyer, but I have never gotten a release from anyone at any sporting event I have shot, and have never been asked about one...Jonezy
Posts: 1
hi guys, I just read this article: http://www.dphotojournal.com/sell-photos-online/
Is it really possible to earn extra $1000/month from your snapshot at those stock sites ?..Has anyone got any expriences ?
Posts: 2
http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/dmca.pdf
Posts: 2
I haven't decided on my delivery method yet, but rather than watermark everything I went with low quality versions (PhotoShop save for web moderate quality) for full size images. I figure this way potential customers can view a crisp image (thumbnail) and even pirate the full size image (if they want to spend untold hours manupilating it) or can just pay me for the full size version.
From a marketing perspective, I believe this doesn't look as high pressure as some of the other sites out there. but again that's my perspective
Posts: 13
i am struggling with that question too..
whith a little different flavor!
>>>>>>>ps : i know my english is bad and i do not have any patience with people that put my ideas down because >>>>>>>>>>>>>they have difficulties understand me,so if you do not like it do not read me.
I am a "professional " artist and whish to choose a non commercial
open source app to help me sell my stuff and so far everywhere i go
they want money from me .
even gallery is making the access to self very difficult and the acces to
their services and online printing easy...
obsviously this is a biais and we can understand why...they have numbers of hungry mouths to feeed you have to be a good parent! i went to copershit and to zen-cart and etc same thing........
the only good guys so far is oscommerce and (gallery in some ways( not all)) who understand their interrest in open source and the support they provide for free .
because undirectly they are making so much money! so they do not need it and can focus on helping the little guy for free. choosing what you do for a living this is the same dillemmna that artist who do not want to compromise with sharks and blood suckers...gallery should understand that their interrest is to support the little guy and make an effort to create a interface or a mod to marry (with) oscommerce and gallery.
because they are the best. while we are at it let's make a deal with b2evolution ,gallery, and oscommerce to offer the ultimate communication tool for free on the internet.
<<<<<I had a dream >>> next goals are creating your own TV station...
that's what the internet should be...free in all ways if you want to sell your stuff you can but when an artist start to play the game of corporations then he/she has to play the game of killing or be killed and that's why we are invaded with no good /predators stuff that clogged our life.
i am making a call to the owner of gallery to consider that point and give us real free access by facilitating the making of a mod .thanks
http://www.paulelie.com
Posts: 13
and a little note to print4us
you are wrong this is the law and you are lucky so far...anyone that you shoot ,that have money ( to pay the lawyer) and that feels that you could be a good target could sue you.
check a professional site about copywriting and model release agreement.
people have the right of owning their picture and if you do not have an agreement they can say that they did not want to be publish and taking picture of and sue you because you had violating their privacy!
and the phographer is supposed to produce the form or ask for permission. not the over way around.
if you do pay your model how do expect them to pay you for your pictures?
doesn't that make s sense?
http://www.paulelie.com
Posts: 126
WOW!! I was looking at my site stats and saw a bunch of hits to the coolcatsites/coolstuff directory! That project was abandoned a long time ago
I used to use DotPhoto, but have moved away from offering just regular sized prints and now sell most of my photography on posters, cards and prints using CafePress.com. This weekend I am looking at using PayPal with my directory program to set up a fast way for people to order posters and cards. I use Gallery for my main photography sharing site (still using V1). I never got the paypal carts working with V1, and my site gets loads of traffic so need to look into the plug ins available for that again.
I am also looking into an easy way to offer stock photo that won't drive me crazy, so am creating data CD's to sell on CafePress.com also. Then I can just link from the Gallery image to the cd it's offered on at CafePress
Debbie
http://nightfireproductions.com/modules/gallery
Posts: 5
I have to agree with paulelie there..
although the chances of those models actually discovering your pictures is slim, you will definitely get into a lot of trouble if ever someone discovers you posted their pictures without consent.. you can just at least ask..
----------------------------
Life is Beautiful.. Take Pictures..
Isulong SEOPH
The Problems of an old Bachelor:
Hair Loss &
Adult Toy Stores
Posts: 10
There really is not much point in trying to make money if the middle man kills your margin. This is why we are in the process of setting up our own ebusiness. We host the site on our own equipment, this give us the flexibility to install what ever technologies we need. Also for payment we will be using paypal pro integrated into OScart(the shopping cart). There is no indication that we use paypal and only have to pennies per transaction. If you have the technical skills to do this it is, to my mind, the best way of doing things.
Posts: 10
This is why, our company concentrates on landscapes and wildlife. Neither have the money or willingness to sue.
Posts: 10
Have you figured out how to do the integration, as we are looking at the same combination and with the setup of the company and the galleries I dont have the time to figure it out. If you have it figured out would you be willing to share the code?
Posts: 3
This message is for dtdgooba. I have been utilizing the on-line photo and framing services of American Frame Corp you might want to ckeck them out. In summary, they accept your photos or art which are placed in (your) gallery for sale on-line that includes quality printing, matting, framing, packaging, shipping and billing FREE of charge to the artist/photographer. Viewers reach your gallery via several search strategies, and visitor counts are posted to your account. The artist/photographer receives the full $ amount asked for. American Frame makes their money on framing and providing a body of art from which their on-line customers can choose.
American Frame was by far the easiest and friendliest to get started operation than others I attempted entry to (I'm not to bright, have a short attention span, and hate complicated procedures. I simple want to get my work out without any undo difficulty.
Of course there is a learning curve to deal with here, but it may be well worth it. If I can help, let me know. Ciro V
Posts: 3
Look into American Frame Corp its free and friendly, they do all the work, and most important of all, you get the price you ask for. Ciro V
Posts: 1
You can see a list of stock pictures sites in this article:
http://www.workonyourterms.com/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=1